Gillian McMichael: Finding Your Way Home & Discovering Purpose

 Gillian McMichael is a passionate teacher, healer, Master Coach (founder of Full Circle Global) and author, with 20 years’ experience in helping others navigate their journey to self-discovery and professional fulfilment.  Her Insta is pretty awesome too and that’s how we connected and got to having our conversation.  

Our conversation focuses on finding your way home and discovering purpose, perfect chat for that end of the year feeling!

Gillian's book "Coming Home: A Guide to Being Your True Self" takes readers on a journey of self-discovery, using her own experience of transformational change to demonstrate the powerful effect of forgiving yourself and breaking free of past conditioning. 

She takes you step by step through each stage of a self-healing process to help you return meaning and purpose to your life, and agency to your true self. 

Follow Gillian on Instagram

All Gillians links

Coming Home: A Guide to Being Your True Self - buy

Transcript

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Speaker C: Hello, and welcome to The One Thing, a podcast where I talk to fabulous females about the one thing that made them step out of their comfort zone and change their life for the better. Because it's only by taking brave steps that we truly grow as a person. I'm your host, mom, social media manager, and general soul searcher, Vanessa Carlos. And every week, I'll be introducing a small business owner, a blogger, or a creative to discuss their One Thing.

Speaker A: Jillian Michael is a passionate teacher, healer, coach. She's the founder of Full Circle Global and author with 20 years experience in helping others navigate their journey to self discovery and professional fulfillment. Her Insta is pretty awesome as well, and that's how we connected and got to having our conversation, which focuses on finding your way home and discovering your purpose. The perfect chat for that end of the year feeling. Jillian's book, Coming Home A Guide to Being Your True Self, takes readers on a journey of selfdiscovery using her own experience, which we go into in this conversation of transformational change. To demonstrate the powerful effect of forgiving yourself and breaking free of past conditioning, she takes you on a STEPBYSTEP through each stage of selfhealing process to help you return to meaning and purpose, to your life and agency, to your true self. It was an absolute delight to speak to her. I really hope you enjoy this conversation. So, without further ado, let's welcome Jillian into that one thing.

Speaker B: Hey Jillian. Welcome to that one thing. It's so lovely to meet you.

Speaker D: Thank you. I'm so looking forward to having our chat today. Really glad to be here.

Speaker B: I know I am too. And I thought, actually the best way to introduce you because I always go onto people's Instagrams before I meet them because I feel that's the real kind of shop window almost right. And I saw this one post that you did. It's probably a few weeks ago now, and it was when you wrote your own vows to yourself when you got married, as well as vows for your husband?

Speaker D: Yes.

Speaker B: And I just thought, I'm going to read these out because it's really going to give a really clear picture of who you are to our audience because they were wonderful. They really thank you, so I'm going to read them.

Speaker D: Okay.

Speaker B: Okay, so you wrote three you had three vows yourself. The first one is, I will have an open mind and suspend all judgment of myself and others. I took a big intake of breath with that one. Okay. I will have an open heart, be kind to myself, and embrace my emotions. Another big and take a breath with that one. Especially the embracing my emotions fit, and I will have an open will, trust my intuition, and allow my inner magic to flow through me. First off, to even have that kind of purpose in your life when you're just about to embark on a big thing in your life is massive. I don't think I could have even got to that point or been at that point back when I got married. How many years ago? I think 14 now. And that must have been a real turning point for you.

Speaker D: Yeah, it was. Now obviously up until that point, I'd been on a bit of a rocky road of a journey. So this is my second husband, so I was going into this a little bit more awareness, but also five, six years previous to that, I kind of lost. So actually it was a long time before that, so sorry. So ten years for twelve years ago, actually, I more or less lost everything. My home, my business, my first relationship, my first marriage, all of that kind of thing. So I was on a journey at this point of really kind of I kind of put my stake in the ground. And after losing everything and going through all the trauma of that and then trying to rebuild through that process, I set some promises to myself there, which was I was going to rediscover who I was because I'd lost myself. And so part of the process of wanting to write these principles for myself, my promises or my vows to myself, was because I didn't want to enter my new marriage with any old baggage that would get in the way. So that's why I did it. Yeah.

Speaker B: Really, really powerful. Do you think that those kind of feelings that you had when you were writing those vows, did that kind of cement your coaching practice? In a way? I mean, when did you start your whole work?

Speaker D: Yes, I'm 50 now, so I've been working as a coach for coming up for nearly coming up for 20 years, in fact, in December. It's 20 years, so I've been on a long journey, I would say, but I think I would say the first part, the first seven years eight years of that journey, I think I most probably wasn't still 100% true to myself. I think I think I got lost along the way somewhere. And I think that was just mainly because of my relationship with my ex husband. And I think most probably, although I was doing really good work and loved doing work as a coach, I really felt this was my calling. I felt that perhaps along the way, due to my relationship and maybe I'd been bullied as a youngster and things like that. So there's a whole range of that most probably not really fully dealt with. And so I think when I think 2010, when everything just basically hit the wall, recession hit, client stopped paying, and I decided to separate in the midst of it all, very the business went into liquidation. I was really left with, okay, right, wow.

Speaker B: Rock bottom, right?

Speaker D: Yeah, I mean, rock bottom. Literally, I was like, Right, well, actually, how do I start again and what do I really want? And so I knew how to survive. So I got myself back on my feet quite quickly in terms of work wise. But actually it was the other stuff that was calling me, which is that deeper work to really reconnect fully with who I am because I had a choice think or swim. So I swam, obviously, and swam like mental to get me where I needed to get to, but at times I didn't even know what I was swimming towards or who was actually swimming. So what came through when I was, I suppose on my own, when you're laying bed of a night, was a deeper calling, which was really to understand really what had happened. But more to the point, instead of judging and criticizing and blaming more to really learn from the experience, because I didn't want to repeat that experience ever again. And so out of that bond, this kind of real eagerness to understand who I was and what I was about, what I wanted. And I suppose that's when I started to become, I suppose, more aware of the spiritual side of myself, such as I learned to meditate and learn to be a teacher for meditation because I could teach meditation now and a reiki healer and things like that. And so I started to really invest in my personal development. And I suppose that kind of started then to unlock those deeper, more meaningful questions that we ask ourselves at particular points in our lives.

Speaker A: Oh, my goodness, yes, I did.

Speaker B: The Deepak Chopra, was it ten day meditation right to the beginning of the lockdown. And we had like a little group of us that we all got together on WhatsApp? And I think I've done that meditation now 20 times, maybe a bit more than that. And it is that kind of getting into the practice of doing it that really helps, doesn't it?

Speaker D: It does. I've got the sun shining there, but hopefully that's okay. It's lovely. No complaining. So I think for me, I mean, obviously I trained with Deepak Oprah and his training school for meditation, and it really opened really, my eyes to what meditation can bring to you as a person and how it could actually genuinely help kind of bring you genuinely back home to yourself. And I think learning to quiet the mind and to understand that chatter is it just narrative? Is it perception? Is it real? What is it? And then to choose to be able to be mindful about it and to choose to do either something with it or something not with it, I think was very liberating for me in my early days. And then obviously, as I've been integrated that more into my everyday life, I meditate now. Every morning, I have my own personal mantras and that really helps me focus on really just grounding myself and setting myself up for the rest of my week or the rest of my day.

Speaker B: Absolutely. I have two inner critics. One is a very loud Greek man. Don't ask me why he's Greek, I call him Stavros, but he's extremely loud in my head. And the other one is a particularly mean teacher I had in secondary school. And they kind of come out at certain times. I don't know what it is, but it's either one or the other. Have you got any advice about not necessarily silencing these people, but almost to, like, embrace them and then send them on their way?

Speaker D: Yeah, it's a really good question because I think the thing is with our invoice and I call it I call it my critical companion and I have my passive Passenger villainous Fear, I have all these kind of labels to mine. And I think, realistically, I don't think they will ever go away because at the end of the day, that's the ego. It's there to detect us in a way. It's the ego's way of trying to keep us safe and keep us small in many ways. But mainly ego's job is to keep us out of danger and to keep us safe. But I think when we allow that narrative to become too strong, then it just stops us from doing the things that we really want to do and it will kind of keep us small and it will keep us very, very safe. And sometimes we need to break out of our comfort zones and to try new things and to experience new things, because that's all part of growth and living, isn't it? But I think with the voice, I think all you've got to do, I think, is learn to tame it because it won't go away. But for me, I think over time, I've just learned to turn the volume down a little bit so that actually, yeah, I acknowledge it's there. And I might have that selfdoubt moment might come through every now and again and think, oh, I'm saying this again, that voice might say, Why are you doing that? Nobody's going to want to hear you do that. Who do you think you are? You know, that kind of voice. And then you think, actually, okay, so I could just say, well, thanks very much in my mind. Thank you very much for that, but I'm going to just pop you over there for now because I'm going to stay focused on what I want to do. But that requires, I think, a skill, doesn't it requires a commitment and I would say a dedication to learn to understand the voice and to recognize its voice, first of all, and then to choose in the moment what to do with it, whether to pay attention to it or to let it just drift away. And I think sometimes bringing personas and personality, bring it as a personality, it could be quite fun, actually, and it can make it more easier to let it go or to turn the volume down on it.

Speaker B: Absolutely right. Absolutely. I liked your post as well that you did the other day. And I think because this podcast is all about comfort zones and kind of getting out of your comfort zone, and one of your tips is that you should fake it until you make it. And I was always a little hesitant of that. So, yeah, we just should totally fake it before we feel ready.

Speaker D: I think the thing is, for me, this is like train. It's like building a new muscle. So it's like anything training from marathon or anything like that, learning to drive a car. You have to get behind the wheel, you have to get the trainers on in the first instance. And I think you see, I just remember myself when I learned to run off a jog years ago, and I used to go out running and I'd have all the gear but no idea. Do you know what I mean? And I think it's a bit like that, you have all the gear but no idea. And I think what you've got to do is take it a bit lightly, take yourself a bit lighter or be a bit light with yourself, a bit kind of, you know, more freeing, and say, okay, look, I might not get it right and it might not be perfect, but I'm going to keep going with it anyway. So it's like the more you try it, the easier it becomes.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker D: So I suppose in a way, it is kind of faking it until you make it. But I think more than anything else, for me, it's about trial, trial and error. So keep doing it. Keep doing it, keep doing it because every day you do it, or every week you do it, that muscle is going to get stronger and stronger. And so because what we're doing is we're just reprogramming, all we're doing is reprogramming the mind and we kind of telling ourselves, well, of course you can do a presentation, of course you can change jobs, you know, so actually, you've got to start believing you can do it. And the only way to do that is by faking it before you can actually really get there.

Speaker B: It's that first initial leap, isn't it?

Speaker D: The first step is always the most critical and crucial step. Yeah.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely right. So let's get onto your book, Coming Home. What kind of led you to writing this book?

Speaker D: Well, I think it was on the back of what happened when I've lost everything. I mean, I didn't have the idea immediately to do something, but what I did is I journaled a lot through the whole process of what I would class was quite traumatic for me. And what that took me then was to wanting to understand more about my childhood and what happened when I was younger and how that affected me as an adult, and the way that I behaved and the circumstances, situations I found myself in, and how I basically showed up not either as myself or not as myself. And it was really, really enlightening. And so I just journaled on it and journal. So for most probably about the first five years. So from 2015, I was writing on a daily basis, and then I thought, one day I'd like to do something with it. And then Lockdown came and there we go. I was due to go to India to do my yoga teacher training course, which I was all booked on and ready to go. And the pandemic came, so I couldn't go. And for the first time in my life, I had a month free. So I'm just going to sit down and write. I'm not getting clients, I'm not getting anything booked in everything. Nobody knows I'm available. So I just thought, right. So every morning I got up and I just basically heard of them. People could talk about the morning pages or something to get up, get my cup of tea. I'm just going to write. And so I wrote and wrote and wrote, literally as though it was like my full time job for a whole month. And then at the end of it, I had something that then I think was worth editing. And so and that's what happened. But what I've done with the book, I suppose, is it started off being very much a memoir to begin with, but I didn't feel that was most probably was going to be as impactful because it was just my story. So it was very cathartic for me, brilliant for me, because it was huge offload. And I learned a lot about writing about myself and my experiences over the years. So I learned an awful lot about myself through the process. But then I wanted to really encourage people to be able to say, well, if people are going to read this, I wanted them to provide them with a roadmap of how they can also come back home to their true self. And so suppose the book is A journey of how I came back home to my true self, and therefore then there's guidance of how the reader can do that for themselves as well.

Speaker B: That's what you need, don't you? I mean, it's very well reading something, but if you can actually put it into practice as well, it's so helpful, isn't it?

Speaker D: Yeah, it is.

Speaker B: Have you got any plans to write anything else?

Speaker D: Well, yeah, I'm kind of planning I'm kind of thinking about something at the moment, which is just rough outlines, but yeah, I'm looking forward to kind of seeing if I can do something else. Do you have the time?

Speaker B: Do you have that month? That's the problem, right?

Speaker D: Not at the moment. No, not at the moment. But next year I'm planning to create some time, maybe late 23. I've got some time over the summer, so I've kind of blocked it out already to see if I can get some ideas down. But we'll see how we go. But yeah, I think I'd like to do another one to follow it up. I've just got the audio book recorded, and that's coming out in January as well.

Speaker B: Wonderful. I do love an audiobook, actually.

Speaker D: I do as well. I love listening.

Speaker B: It's really, really nice when you're having a walk or you're having to listen to like, a podcast or like, an audiobook. Yeah, it's perfect, isn't it? Yeah. Okay, so you then we have to listen out for this. So you're thinking maybe next year?

Speaker D: Late next year. I'll take next year. Early 2024, maybe. Yes. I'll keep you posted. Yes, absolutely.

Speaker B: Let's go on to this thing about the midlife crisis. Because I'm 45. You're 50? I hate that word, first of all. Midlife crisis.

Speaker D: I do, in fact, actually choose not to use that, but we'll use it.

Speaker B: For today because what I prefer is a midlife awakening.

Speaker D: Absolutely. Actually, I think that's a really good word, actually awakening, because I think that truly is what happens.

Speaker B: Yeah, it is, isn't it? I think you kind of feel, okay, I brought these kids up. I don't know whether you're a parent.

Speaker D: Yes, I am. My son is in his twenty s now.

Speaker B: There we go. And you put all your time and all your effort into bringing up someone else, making sure that someone else is okay, and then all of a sudden they're like, yeah, actually, I'm fine, mom. See you later, I'm off. And then you're kind of left. Oh, okay. So now what am I all about? And I think there's a big shift, isn't there, when you're kind of trying to work out exactly what you are all about again and what you were before you became a parent.

Speaker D: Yes, absolutely.

Speaker B: What do you think is probably the first thing you need to do when you're trying to work out who that person is again.

Speaker D: Yeah, so there's loads of different things that I think you can do. One of the exercises that I did was genuinely just and it's in the book, actually, but it's an exercise work or just basically mirror work, where you literally sit in front of the mirror and keep asking yourself who you are. Now, the problem is because we've got to the stage yes, midage, kind of late. Fortys to 50. Midday. Midday. Once you are at mid age, there's a few things, actually. One, we're more mature, so we should be more wiser, but I think because we are too busy, especially women. I mean, I can only speak because I'm a woman, I can't speak for a man, but I know for myself that you are busy doing doing for other people. And so I think you do forget who you are and what you're all about. And I think I think we have attached to us so many labels like, you know, of course we're a mum, a daughter, or a sister, or an auntie or a businesswoman. All of these different labels that we have, I think we have to start stripping back some of those and go back to what I did is I remember, right, I had a big blank piece of paper and I bought myself some fat crayons, you know, like crayola crayons. And I thought, right, I'm going to sit down and write a list of all the things that I love doing. And I couldn't put anything down on paper, it was blank.

Speaker B: That sounds familiar.

Speaker D: I actually had forgotten around what I loved doing when I was younger. I didn't really have any hobbies because it was mama work and that's what happens, you don't have a lot of hobbies. Or I didn't anyway, because it was all focused on work and family and so obviously I was like, right, what do I do? Anyway, I started to remember things around what I used to do as a kid. Like I used to ride a bike and she loved riding my bike and I used to love dancing and I can't sing, but I like singing and things like that and I couldn't remember the last time I actually read a novel. I'm going on a holiday. It'd be the only time I'd ever read a novel without, you know, I didn't have any time. So I wrote this list of things that I love to do and I thought, Right, I'm going to do them. And so I started to introduce some of these into my I mean, and actually, none of them were very costly, they were quite lowkey. Bible, can read it on the sofa, have a cup of tea and a piece of cake. It wasn't massively riveting or massively exciting, but actually it was so rewarding and so fulfilling. And then I realized how much I loved music and I'd forgotten that actually music was a really good healer for me. And so I had a stressful day. Come in and pipe the music up and just lie on the living room floor on my own for ten minutes listening to my favorite tunes. And then by the time the songs have gone up, I was like, Whoa, I'm fine. I'm actually my dad, and started to integrate more exercise into my life and all different things. And it just started to build a really nice kind of routine for me. And I called it my kind of wellness approach to living with my lifestyle. And I still do that now every day and I find it just really helps. And so it doesn't have to be so cost effective to try something new or to discover yourself. You can just go back to what you know. And I think I think the key thing is, is not to be afraid and to maybe just give yourself some space and time to write a list of all the things that you're passionate about, all things that might bring you joy and try and integrate some of that. Because I think finding that joy within can actually help you find out who.

Speaker B: You are again, even if it seems really adolescent. You can totally go back.

Speaker D: Nothing wrong with going on the swings or on the roundabout or the seesaw. Nothing wrong with.

Speaker B: That kind of stuff.

Speaker D: Exactly.

Speaker B: I did quite a lot of coaching in 2001 and I did a lot of inner child work, so I decided I was going to go back to where I used to hang out when I was a teenager, which was Camden Lock at the time. And I wandered around there for quite a long time and I sat down and I wrote myself a letter because, you know, I was like 18, 1920. Difficult time of life, isn't it, where you work through things and work through what you want to do with your life and all this kind of stuff. And I think I got to that point where I just had to say to her, you know what? You're absolutely fine the way you are.

Speaker D: And I think that is a really important thing because one of the things I would say for us to really connect with ourselves is we have to accept and appreciate who we are and where we are and why we are where we are. And if we can also forgive that child or forgive the teenager and just really invite loving rather than that critical voice or that kind of lost teenager or lost youngster that we once were, oh my goodness.

Speaker B: It was very healing and yeah, it was a very good way to spend an afternoon, I have to admit.

Speaker D: I really have to. I think it's something powerful, though, in that letter writing as well. I've done that before where when I was letting go of some of my past, the things that weren't serving me so well. Some of those kind of patterns of behavior and belief systems that just weren't working for me, they were past conditioning. And I did that. I wrote a letter to my past and wrote a letter and thanked it for all that it gave me. But I was ready to release it and to let it go. Because sometimes when we have that, I suppose, emptiness, or maybe when our children get older or when we're still figuring out who we are, we get muddled a little bit. And so I think sometimes understanding what you can let go of is equally as important as well.

Speaker B: Absolutely. And being okay with letting things go as well. I think it's so hard sometimes, isn't it, to hold onto those old conditioning bleeds because they kept you safe for so long. But, yeah, you just got to get.

Speaker D: Rid of it, really. So I think there's something about being kind to yourself and really kind of caring and compassionate. I said to someone the other day that I think it's important to learn to befriend yourself, to become your own best body, your own best friend, because we don't it's that critical voice, isn't it? It's that kind of like I said, it's those voices that kind of stop us from doing things. And I think if you really want to find out who you are and rediscover yourself, then I think there's something about being kind and compassionate to yourself and give yourself a bit of love and care, even if that means getting.

Speaker B: Your roller skates on.

Speaker D: Right, absolutely. Or singing into your hairbrush, which I've been known to do.

Speaker B: Absolutely.

Speaker D: Again.

Speaker B: Oh, that sounds brilliant.

Speaker D: I'd love to do a bit of that good fun. Especially when Nobies around. Only when Nobies around.

Speaker B: That sounds great. Right. I'm going to slightly change tag.

Speaker D: Sure.

Speaker B: Because I'm a marketer. And again, having a look on your instagram. Love your instagram, by the way. I loved what you what you spoke about your pet peeve that's happening in the coaching industry. Well, it's kind of moving away now, I think, I hope, where you are always trying to kind of talk to your people like they were broken, like there was something that needed to be fixed. Like there was something wrong with them and trying to find that kind of thing that was wrong with them so you could serve them and give them an alternative. And how that ****** you off? That really, really ****** you off. And I'm a marketer, so I always try and persuade my coaches that I work with, this is probably not the way forward, because your people aren't broken. The people that you want to speak to, they're not you're just trying to bring out the best in these people and yeah. I just wanted to know if you could expand on that. Go ahead. Yeah.

Speaker D: So I think what we've got to do is I think you're right. I think. We're not broken. And I think this goes back to get that piece around acceptance and forgiveness and appreciation. I think we are the drivers of our own cars, our own vehicles with the captain of our own ship, so to speak. And I think what we've got to be careful is that we don't limit our clients by just giving them a whole set of tools and techniques that we think they should do and follow. Because the way that I see is that everybody is unique. Of course, we're all unique and we've got our own experiences. You and me could have experienced the same thing, but how I experience it could be very different to how you experience. So we might I don't know, you know, other people have lost their businesses and things like that, and other people have changed jobs or had divorced and things. But how you experience that is very unique to you. And so for me, I think it's very much around really needing to work with the whole person and to really truly understand what is going to be significant and meaningful and relevant to them in terms of their changes that they want to make. And I think if we just do that whole kind of mass approach, then we really are losing the essence of what I think is what true coaching is all about.

Speaker B: And not only that, you kind of alienate people in the way you're speaking to them because if you're talking to them like they're a broken thing that needs to be fixed, you're like, well, hang on a minute, I'm not broken. I'm actually okay, thank you very much. And it actually can kind of almost.

Speaker D: Come across in a it's patronizing, isn't it?

Speaker B: Yeah, totally. So I've had to tell quite a few people in the past to kind of change up the way they're wording things, especially when I'm running ads for them and stuff like that, just to kind of change up that wording. And it immediately creates a much better effect in their marketing and everything that they're speaking about, rather than saying this is what you need to do and this is how you're going to do it.

Speaker D: Because again, what might be right for you might not be right for me, and vice versa. And I think it was interesting got asked the other week to do a little article around something similar, actually. And that's one of the things I said there, is that realistically, we can't treat everybody the same. Yes, those steps. And we've got to be careful because obviously on Instagram, it is a bit more I think we have to tell more on Instagram because we want to go a minute literally to say what you want to say. And so I think it has to be a little bit more directive in that media or that kind of medium. But I think then we've got to be careful that because actually we really want to be following good strong ethical practice as a coach as well. And so yes, there's lots of tools and techniques that you can share as these might be quick things that you could consider, but it's a could consider it's not the Holy Grail.

Speaker B: Thank you for that. Thank you for that. I really do appreciate that and I think a lot of people do appreciate that and I also think from a muggle standpoint as well call ourselves a muggle here. That that's so nice to hear because yeah, I think we're a bit ****** off of being told what to do and having coaches telling us from like a pedestal this is absolutely the Holy Grail of what you need to do.

Speaker D: And I think that's why in the book I've said very clearly that this is the steps that I took that I hope will help, but it might not help because again, everybody's different. And I think we've got to treat everybody as unique in individuals because, again, we need to pay into consideration around or take into consideration people's learning styles and what motivates them and drives them and also where they are in their journey. Because there's also a readiness. Isn't that important in coaching? Your clients have to be at that point of real readiness and willingness to take that step forward and regardless of how many tools and techniques you throw at them, if they're not ready, it's not going to work anyway.

Speaker B: I mean also there was like that whole thing where especially when you come from like a kind of a meditating practices, you've come from that kind of area to kind of explain to people, oh yeah, all you have to do is meditate every day and all of a sudden it's going to change your life. And I think early on when I first started getting into all this self help stuff, I did kind of think, oh yeah, I can kind of completely on my way out of this life that I'm in at the moment and I can change it. But actually what you need is that you have to have that bit of woo and I love that bit of woo but you also have to have to do the work as well.

Speaker D: Yeah. And I think that's the most important thing is you have to do the work so you can read as many books, you can get told, you could be coached a million times, but actually if you're not prepared to do the work then you're not going to get very far. And so that's that sense of willingness and readiness, you've got to be ready for it, and you've got to give it you've got to be prepared to give it a try, even if it's just small baby steps, because I think the small baby steps are the things that will get you closer to where you want to get to. So I don't think we have to radically change our whole life. In fact, it's impossible to do that anyway. But I do think if we can learn to take small meaningful steps that will then get us closer to where we want to get to, then I think that's most probably a better way forward. But you can only do that when you're ready and when you're prepared to do the work. And I do think a lot of it is the inner work that we have to do.

Speaker B: Yeah, it is the inner work.

Speaker D: I think it's very easy to fix the outside stuff, but then if the outside stuff is fixed and the inner stuff isn't, then it's going to be very difficult for us to make that sustained change. So I think we should always personally, I would say from my experience, it's only my point of view is that we should start with the inner learning first, the inner journey before we then can work on the external.

Speaker B: Exactly. I mean, you could try and lose £100, but if you're not right on the inside, it's just not going to work. Is that right?

Speaker D: No, definitely not.

Speaker B: Yeah, absolutely. Okay, we've come to the final question. Jillian, it's been so lovely to have you here. It's really helpful for all of us, I think, when we've kind of coming to the end of the year and we're all journaling stuff out and kind of having a real reflection on how the years gone and all. This kind of it's really, really key that we have you on our podcast and in our ear holes as soon as possible so we can just kind of work it out for ourselves. But you seem like a super confident lady, so I don't know whether this is going to work on you, but I always have this final question and is there any one thing that you have got left to do in your life or in your business, but you've got a little bit of fear about it?

Speaker D: God, there's loads of things. Yes, definitely. Like writing another book. So there's loads of things. I actually think the biggest thing is, and this is the thing I'm working on all the time, is to believe in myself, okay? And that's been something from being a very little girl. You talked about a schoolteacher saying something to add a few of those as well, and my own self doubts and things like that throughout my whole life. And I think I've learned and trained myself to overcome that fear. But it is a constant reminder that you're okay, Jillian, and you're alright and you will get there with it. And so there's that sense of motto which I say all the time, whether it's when I'm on my spin bike, when I'm doing my yoga, when I'm doing my work, it's just, you can do this, Jillian, you can do this. And that's what I say to myself all the time. So that's something that I think from a self doubt perspective will always be there. It's just something I just need to keep working on and keep putting the effort into everything.

Speaker B: Yeah, there you go. Absolutely. That's a lovely answer. Well, it's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. I hope to see you on Instagram. I'm sure you'll be in My very soon. The links to all the podcast notes will have your book in there and how to work with you as well. And maybe we'll have the new book later on. But yes, it's lovely to have you. What you up to for the next hour or two?

Speaker D: I've got a group mentoring session to do with some of my clients and my coach trainees that I'm teaching, so that's going to be me for the rest of the day. So I'm going to go have a quick cup of tea and then thank you so much.

Speaker B: Enjoy the winter sun and I'll see you very soon.

Speaker D: Thanks so much.

Speaker B: Bye bye now. Hello, everybody.

Speaker A: Welcome back. You've made it to the end of our conversation. I really, really hope you enjoyed that chat I had with Jillian. She is a wonderful lady. And as always, all the links that you'll be looking for will be in the podcast notes. So that's all the links to her work and that wonderful book that she was talking about.

Speaker B: Yes.

Speaker C: Enjoy.

Speaker A: Next week is the last episode of the series and I'm going to be doing quite a vulnerable solo episode. I'm going to be going into a real look behind the scenes of my business, what's working for me this year and also what really hasn't worked for me, and the kind of things that I have learned about myself through the whole process of running a business in the past year.

Speaker B: I'm really nervous about doing this one.

Speaker A: But I think it'll be really, really useful for people. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. It'll be the last one and then I'm taking a little break and I.

Speaker B: Will be back in the new year.

Speaker A: I've got loads more interviews lined up for you. So, yes, I will see you next week.

Speaker B: Stay warm, everybody, and yeah, love you all.

Speaker C: Thank you so much for listening to that one thing. And please don't forget to rate, review and subscribe. It really helps to get my little podcast into the universe and I'll be forever grateful.

Speaker B: Music you.